What colleges play Packline defense? I know Washington State and Tod Kowalczyk at Wisconsin-Green Bay. Who else? http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,3770#msg-3770 Tue, 18 Jun 2013 23:07:10 -0500 Phorum 5.2.19 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,8516#msg-8516 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,8516#msg-8516 Anonymous7632 Basketball Defenses Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:13:21 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,7728#msg-7728 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,7728#msg-7728
Wayne Walters]]> WAyne Walters Basketball Defenses Sat, 02 Apr 2011 12:39:33 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,7727#msg-7727 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,7727#msg-7727 Coach O Basketball Defenses Sat, 02 Apr 2011 09:40:09 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,7726#msg-7726 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,7726#msg-7726
My defensive philosophy is very similar to yours in that everything we do is very aggressive. We have always played m2m full and half court and have been very successful with it even without the most athletic players. However, I would love a copy of your defensive principles so that I could incorporate some of them into what we already do.]]> Coach O Basketball Defenses Sat, 02 Apr 2011 09:24:38 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,6678#msg-6678 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,6678#msg-6678
This is the perfect defense for a high school level or any other level of play!!! This may be the best video ever made!!! He give everything you would need to run this defensive system. If you any other information give me a call in the office. 800.873.2730]]> Thom Basketball Defenses Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:39:16 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,6213#msg-6213 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,6213#msg-6213 orangepower Basketball Defenses Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:27:53 -0600 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5430#msg-5430 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5430#msg-5430 guruarmy Basketball Defenses Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:59:01 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5420#msg-5420 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5420#msg-5420
I sent you a direct email this morning. Thank you for any help or advice that you can offer.

Thanks again,

LA Coach]]> LA Coach Basketball Defenses Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:17:42 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5419#msg-5419 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5419#msg-5419
I once taught the basics to a dozen 6th graders in 30 minutes. MS not a problem in fact younger is sometimes easier because they have no "baggage". Sometimes older players "what if" you to death. You choose the options within the concepts then use the same rules in you version of my drills. The drills are the key. They teach the rotations ... two basic concepts, 3 techniques & verbals.

Unlike Help and Recover, no problem with any "paralysis by analysis" because your players are only asked to do one thing at a time very well unlike "the rock and a hard place" of helping then closing out. Sliding to help is slower than sprinting to help.

Many coaches show parts of the DVD's to their team as a teaching tool. MS teams only need the two basic rotations and the fake of the trap to be effective build on that toward varsity. I have set adjustments to most offenses including DDM and Five Out.]]> Wayne Walters Basketball Defenses Wed, 15 Apr 2009 04:28:43 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5418#msg-5418 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5418#msg-5418
Can the SWARM defense be taught to a middle school team? It seems extremely hard to communicate everything to a middle school boy. They do not always focus. I want my team to play aggressively on defense.

You did send me some information on a few offensive sets that I found really helpful.

Any advice or recommendations are very much appreciated.

Thank you.

LA Coach]]> LA Coach Basketball Defenses Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:33:34 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5417#msg-5417 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5417#msg-5417
Actually, three hundred coaches report the opposite because the reaction time is quicker and their are less decisions. Et
and I had a great Q&A but he was open minded.

In your case, your bash something you know nothing about but
it easy to be aggressive on the net. ... ignorance is bliss.

lol

FlexOff,

I completely agree that developing players is important. I did at the JUCO because I always had players that were rejected from other schools because of grades or skills in order to get depth.

What happens when great players play great players? IMO
help and recover breaks down. What do you think?]]> Wayne Walters Basketball Defenses Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:29:12 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5416#msg-5416 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5416#msg-5416
I think you make a great point about developing players. I think many coaches today make the mistake of "overcoaching" because they try and run too many things.

Take for instance all this SWARM stuff on here. Here is a situation where a guy is trying to re-invent the wheel. Basketball is a simple game. You develop your players and get them playing hard and doing the little things well. The more players have to think, the slower their feet get-"paralysis by analysis".]]> Montytitan Basketball Defenses Tue, 14 Apr 2009 13:22:19 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5409#msg-5409 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5409#msg-5409
The pack is criticized because it is looked at as a defense played by lesser teams, with little to know talent. Well although Memphis lost in the finals in 07-08, they averaged 80ppg and led the nation in defense. Why? They had great players.

By the way, I think Syracuse might have won a championship sitting in a 2-3 zone. Oh yeah, they had Carmello, Warrick, and a red hot McNamara.

Great players in any defense can win. Coaches need to stop running plays and develop players.]]> FlexOff Basketball Defenses Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:47:36 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5328#msg-5328 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5328#msg-5328
I think a team in our area runs that. They Pack when the ball is up top and really force baseline on the wings and start to rotate from the low hole on the first dribble (1 dribble, 1 step).

I will purchase some of your stuff at some point because I can't stand not knowing everything, but also because I share a lot of the same ideas about the "effectiveness" of pressing and trapping- if you are not bigger and quicker your not going to be successful. And we certainly aren't either of those.

I have your email and phone #]]> et Basketball Defenses Thu, 02 Apr 2009 10:05:24 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5322#msg-5322 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5322#msg-5322 and much future success to your school/team.

Are you interested in how we trap, deny and do not get beat 4 on 3 out of the trap? You could easily apply this to your PACK trapping. Some coaches, run a version called Thumb/SOS (not
to be confused with Kloppenberg) where they PACK every time
the ball is at the top but SWARM in wings and corner with these
concepts.]]> Wayne Walters Basketball Defenses Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:34:42 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5319#msg-5319 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5319#msg-5319
Also if you look closely no where do I criticize, critic, or down grade the SWARM. I am just a proponent of the Pack.

In fact I thought my last post emphasized the points we were both making:

SWARM = create turnovers & get easy baskets, VMI shoots a really high % and scores a lot of points per possession (not game)

Pack = grind out games, Pack stats reflect a lower points per possession (not game), but also lower turnover %.

Sorry if you think I am anti-SWARM. Far from it. I am pro-Pack, and have mearly been answering questions about this particular type of defense in the above posts. Any mention of SWARM or any other non-Pack defense has not been by me.]]> et Basketball Defenses Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:44:35 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5318#msg-5318 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5318#msg-5318 at Glendale Community College, he posted earlier in favor of the
SWARM.

My stats for 7 years of JUCO and the 300+ teams running my defense do not have the old Marymount "give up a few lay ups to create tempo" philosophy.

Keep in mind it depends what you do on offense if I hold the ball on offense, I can make my set defense look good as far as ppg. etc.]]> Wayne Walters Basketball Defenses Wed, 01 Apr 2009 18:59:07 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5311#msg-5311 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5311#msg-5311
But why I love the Pack is tough shots and rebounds. Not because of the turnovers it creates.

And if you take a look at VMI's stats** this year you will see exactly what WE are talking about.

They are ranked #1 in their tempo or pace of play (most possessions per game in D-1)

They score 110 pts per 100 possessions, they allow 103 defensively. D-1 Avg 101

They force a turnover 26% of the time D-1 Avg 20%

They shoot at a FG% above the D-1 Avg, the allow a FG% above the D-1 Avg

They get an off reb 27% of the time, they allow an off reb 42%, D-1 Avg 32.9%

If this is not are discussion in lived out, I don't know what else is. They score easy baskets (off turnovers and steals no doubt), they give up easy baskets (off offensive rebounds and a mistimed rotation). I will trade easy baskets off steals in exchange for eliminating offensive rebounds by my opponent. You will not. Personality.

**stats derived from: kenpom.com

[kenpom.com]]]> et Basketball Defenses Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:06:56 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5307#msg-5307 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5307#msg-5307
Here is what thirty yours has taught me (IMO) ...

1. As the underdog both athletically and skill wise, pressing and trapping magnifies my disadvantage.

2. If I try to Spread Out, to run clock and shorten the game ... most of the time I will turn it over before I get a shot and I will struggle to score for the same reasons that I struggle to defend.

3. I need to cause turnovers to pull the upset and to score enough to have a chance. If you trap with bigger players, you may cause turnovers even with leaving outlets open but if I trap with two 5'7"s on a 6'3" the pass is really wide open ... I
have a solution to the problem you describe with trap and deny! (actually two!)

4. Sometimes my best shot my be an open look early ...

5. Good teams will have at least one good shooter or two to
attack a sagging defense.

6. According to a coach in WA that is into stats, my system
forces more "live" ball turnovers while PACK forces "dead" ball turnovers. I need "live" ball turnover with a chance to score. On a three second count, I still need to face a set defense.

7. I have also determined that it boils down to personality. I
have a close friend that PACKS because he would rather give
up jump shots. I on the other hand need to force action even with lesser athletes which I can do because I have eliminated help and recover and created a sprint defense.

8. The eight years I was more athletic I was a full court M2M press coach rotating 10-14 players.

9. I respect the success of PACK Coaches and teams but it
is not my style of play even with less athletic players.]]> Wayne Walters Basketball Defenses Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:37:07 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5306#msg-5306 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5306#msg-5306 Whether it be trapping the dribble near half court, trapping a ball screen, or trapping a low post feed, we will have at least one guy that has to guard 2 offensive players.

Steals while trapping

Imagine a team runs a Pick & Roll with 3 players on the weakside and 2 on the P & R side.
When we trap the pick and roll we rotate the lowest help man to cover the roll man. The other 2 help defenders zone up and guard the 3 offensive players on the weakside. We get steals out of the trap frequently.

Other steals while not denying

Imagine a shooter coming off the down screen in a flex offense- because we chase the shooter then cut to the inside once we clear the screen the cutter looks open, but his defender is running right behind him. And unlike the offensive player he is not executing a play, the defender is going for the ball. And against flex teams we get a lot of steals off that down screen.

However we get a lot more rebounds off bad shots than anything else. That is the heart of our defensive effectiveness. Bad Shots & Good Rebounding.]]> et Basketball Defenses Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:37:20 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5305#msg-5305 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5305#msg-5305 I started my coaching career with a guy that played pack line defense and he won more games with less talent than anyone I have seen. He would just grind it out.
I love the fact that both of you are so strongly defending what you do. There is more than one way to win games and if you are down 10 in the pack you are probably going to lose, but if you are tied or close at the start of the 4th quarter and can keep it close most teams that you play tighten up on you especially if your opponet is supposed to be better than you.]]> bird_4_3 Basketball Defenses Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:09:20 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5302#msg-5302 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5302#msg-5302
There are numerous situations you can instruct your team to deny based on a teams continuity offense, sets they like to use, or BOB plays they run. You have to scout and know your opponent, and incorporate their schemes into your defense drills, but what defense doesn't require that?

Also in our Pack system we use three individual assignment options (I stole this from Bob Williams, UCSB)
1. Regular- play with normal Pack rules
2. Challenge- you do not let your man touch the ball, you deny him the ball all over the court. No help responsibility.
3. Basic- Your man can't shoot outside the Packline help a lot
This allows your defense to be more flexible and deny the right players and leave open the right players. Also you don't have to practice a Triangle & 2 or a Box/Diamond & 1.

Our team is not trying to be good at steals or denying- we want the other team to shoot a contested jumper and then go get the rebound. The Pack allows you to accomplish that more effectively than any defense I have seen and statistics from the teams listed above back that up. Opponents struggle scoring and shooting well vs Pack teams, whether they have 100 possessions or 60 possessions.]]> et Basketball Defenses Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:17:22 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5301#msg-5301 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5301#msg-5301
I have seen teams press and come back from down ten with 2 mins. to play although they pressed the entire game because
of the fatigue factor and foul trouble by the other team forced substitutes into late game situations or the press break got predictable.

I have come back from behind a number of times by adjusting our rotations late in a game double more than ten for all of the reasons stated but never really calculated an exact percentage.

I once had a game winning shot after being down eight with two minutes on the clock playing 4 on 5 because we fouled 3 guys out ... I know it is not a win but ...

I still cannot get an answer how PACK Players become such good denial players without practice ... Please advise]]> Wayne Walters Basketball Defenses Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:30:59 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5300#msg-5300 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5300#msg-5300
I understand your point about being down 10 with a few minutes to go, but how many games are won with any system when you are down 10 with 2 to go? My guess is maybe 2-3%. If you have other data that shows the SWARM brings people back from down 10 to win a high percentage of time I'd love to see it. Of course if that was the case, I doubt you would get down 10 to start with.]]> WillUT Basketball Defenses Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:40:19 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5298#msg-5298 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5298#msg-5298
I had JUCO Success but ... 275-280 teams are now enjoying HS success so to imply it only works with better players may
be overstated.

I always ask coaches of PACK or zone, what do you do when you are behind? Do you agree that it is easier to teach pressure
and then PACK then the other way around?]]> Wayne Walters Basketball Defenses Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:31:12 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5297#msg-5297 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5297#msg-5297
I coach high school and it is unique because unlike JUCO or D 1, 2, 3 NAIA, all of those players play high school...and not at my school. I understand that you have had success at the JUCO level, but how many of those girls on your team are JUCO level players? Your opponents? My guess is all of them.

I don't have anyone that can play JUCO. 2 teams in my league do, 2 other teams have an NAIA guy, 2 other teams have D1 guys...We have guys that will be done after high school. We keep it close (with a shot clock) by limiting the # of possessions, taking good shots, and not giving up good shots.

If we get down by 10 with 2 minutes to go we do the same thing Louisville did vs Mich St, that Duke & UCLA did vs Villanova, that Mizzou did vs UConn - we extend the defense create one turnover for every layup we give up and we lose.

But if we can get the lead going into the 4th quarter we can really shorten the game, get easy baskets vs overplay and gambling defenses just like Michigan St did vs Louisville.]]> et Basketball Defenses Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:16:13 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5293#msg-5293 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5293#msg-5293 that stuff or at least once you meet other good athletes.

IMO opinion if PACK is that dominant in M2M. Why do you need all that other stuff? I see WI running PACK and only PACK 90% of the time.]]> Wayne Walters Basketball Defenses Mon, 30 Mar 2009 15:12:38 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5292#msg-5292 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5292#msg-5292 FC Man Run & Jump
FC Man Trap the first pass off the Inb
FC Man Trap the Dribble near 1/2 Court from behind
FC Man Trap the Dribble from the front
1-2-1-1 Zone press
2-2-1 Zone Press
1-2-2 Zone Press
1-2-2/1-1-3 Half Court Zone with R & J principles]]> et Basketball Defenses Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:50:46 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5284#msg-5284 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5284#msg-5284 tristian.fuller@gmail.com]]> ddddd Basketball Defenses Sun, 29 Mar 2009 22:17:04 -0500 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5280#msg-5280 http://www.basketballcoach.com/coaching/read.php?4,3770,5280#msg-5280 90% of the time?

Please advise]]> Wayne Walters Basketball Defenses Sat, 28 Mar 2009 12:11:57 -0500