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TTrain29
Pack Line Defense
May 03, 2007 09:23AM
I was wondering which Pack Line video was the best and which one includes breakdown drills for the posts and the perimeters. Thanks, Tim Peper
gg
Re: Pack Line Defense
May 03, 2007 09:25AM
I also would like to hear opinions on which defensive tape is best overall?
anonsccoach
Re: Pack Line Defense
May 03, 2007 09:21PM
I don't know if it is exactly what you would call the Pack-Line because it was made years before any of that terminology was around, but Dick Bennett's "Pressure Defense: A System" is a phenomonal video that teaches it all and demonstrates all of the break-down drills. There must be something to it. It is one of the few videos that I has withstood the test of time (over 20 yrs ago).
sebus
Re: Pack Line Defense
May 04, 2007 10:18AM
anonsccoach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know if it is exactly what you would call
> the Pack-Line because it was made years before any
> of that terminology was around, but Dick Bennett's
> "Pressure Defense: A System" is a phenomonal video
> that teaches it all and demonstrates all of the
> break-down drills. There must be something to it.
> It is one of the few videos that I has withstood
> the test of time (over 20 yrs ago).


They are not the same thing. Bennett changed a lot in between Pressure Defense and running the pack. Pressure Defense basically covers what most everyone does now.(forcing sidline and baseline, fronting the post, helpsides, deny wing and reversals, etc.) It is a great video. The packline is quite a bit different in philosphy. It forces off the baseline, doesn't deny the wing outside of 17 feet and allows ball reversal. It also calls for a 3/4 on the high side in the post. It is a completely different way to play man defense.
hardwork
Re: Pack Line Defense
May 04, 2007 11:29AM
Sebus,

Which way to do you teach man defense? The on the line up the line style of Bennett's first video or do you use the Pack Line.

I like the Pack Line in theory, but I think it could make your team very passive defensively against teams that more pressure could hurt. I just think at the HS level pressure hurts offensive teams.
sebus
Re: Pack Line Defense
May 04, 2007 01:09PM
hardwork Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sebus,
>
> Which way to do you teach man defense? The on the
> line up the line style of Bennett's first video or
> do you use the Pack Line.
>
> I like the Pack Line in theory, but I think it
> could make your team very passive defensively
> against teams that more pressure could hurt. I
> just think at the HS level pressure hurts
> offensive teams.


I do it differently than most and some people will read what I am going to write and think it won't work. However, it has worked for me the last few years when we are generally outathleted at several and sometimes every position in our conference games. The years we weren't outathleted we had a pretty good man defense using this. We have played mostly man with some 1-3-1 and a very little 2-3 mixed in.

We force to the weak hand with the ball on top. I emphasize this a lot because a lot of wings who get the ball up top in small-medium sized school varsity boys cannot go both directions equally. On the wing we closeout baseline foot up. (this is what most people don't like) We don't force middle, but we emphasize keeping them off the baseline. We have had some big guys who are very important to our team and I have always thought if we forced to the baseline they would rotate over and get in foul trouble. We front in the post, though at times we may adjust to play behind unless they are right under the basket. We don't deny ball reversal from wing to the top very hard, though sometimes I think we should. It is just with us trying to keep them off the baseline we need the top defender ready to help on middle drives.

We have general rules to hedge on back screens and cross screens. We do tell the man defending the picker on a down screen to help for a second to discourage a curl off of a downscreen. On staggers against the good players we go over piggybacking the cutter and then the top defender will hedge against the curl. We used to hedge the ball screens with a hard show if they occurred in the scoring area, but this year we tried to double them as a general rule. It didn't always happen but we tried to do it because I thought it would be a good way to cause turnovers. We didn't have the athletes or depth to press or do too much trapping so it was a good way to get some traps in
CoachLeClaire
Re: Pack Line Defense
May 04, 2007 07:27PM
I have Dick Bennett's "Pack Line Pressure Defense" video and I like a lot of it. Allthough I will agree with what someone said above about it possibly making your team a little passive. That said, if you teach it the way he does in this video, it shouldnt be. The real key to it is get great ball pressure and then everyone else help. The packline puts everyone automatically in a position to help. I really like the way he guards and doubles the post out of this Defense.

If you have a little less athletic team, this is a great way to play because it stops the dribble and then committs to not allowing the post to beat you. Good luck,

Coach L
Coolrunnin
Re: Pack Line Defense
May 04, 2007 11:45PM
I have the Pack Line Pressure dvd and agree with CoachLeClaire. It's an excellent system, particularly if your team is not the most athletic team. It allows you to pressure the ball with one player, and the other players are in help based on their position. The position in the pack is the help. And the post defense scheme is well put together. The system stops the two most troubling areas: dribble penetration and the post.
Anonymous User
Re: Pack Line Defense
November 03, 2008 10:31AM
In regards to high post entries, what is the proper positioning/alignment to defend the high post while making sure to deny the back side cut to the basket? We see two teams in our region that have significant height and use a high post entry combined with a back side cut and/or a kick out to the weak side corner for the jumper.
FlexOff
Re: Pack Line Defense
November 05, 2008 08:18AM
Anybody head of Memphis? They may not run a true Pack-Line, but they are an elbow-block, 1 on the ball, 4 in help defensive team. The idea that if you have great athletes, your bring the lesser talent to your level is bull. Calipari, who is a defensive guy has gotten more steals the last 2 years than ever, he's shifted from a closed denial, to an open help stance.

The reason is this, and its my opinion, I could be wrong. When you have a base defense, that stresses positioning over everything else, you can teach your players reads. You can teach them how to run and jump, how to stunt and recover, how to shoot the gaps. The more athletic the better those options work. Conservative Pack defense does not limit athletic teams.

Memphis led the nation in defense last year, while also scoring 80 pts per game. Check the scores from last year, they blew alot of teams out. I don't remember too many lesser teams competing with them, and their conservative defense.
coachj444
Re: Pack Line Defense
November 05, 2008 09:57PM
Great post. Does calipari have ANYTHING out (book, article, dvd etc) on his defense? I would luv to see if anyone has any notes or anything...
Wayne Walters
Re: Pack Line Defense
November 06, 2008 09:03PM
Here is what I did as a junior college coach in order to test this theory of rotation versus PACK. This is the research that my theories are based on.

1. I recorded shooting percentages three way in all shooting drills every day for five full seasons.

a) With no distracter just shooting ...

b) With a distracter closing from stationary help sprinting out on the catch putting a hand in the face ... like PACK

c) With a distracter rotating out in a sprint from the next spot and putting a hand in the face ... SWARM

2. I wish that I had kept the results but at the time it was for me only and I did not expect to defend it. I expected to keep it a secret.

a) Shooting percentage was identical long term with no distraction or recover only with rotation which allows earlier sprint ... my shooters told me that only rotation effected the speed of the shot

b) To back this up, I timed it live and in drills. I had assistants time it (three different ones) with the same results. Rotation was faster to the shooter.

c) In games, it was not just field goal % defense for two or three but rotation allows you to get to shooters early enough to run them off the line or spot and create "tweeners" that most coaches agree are most difficult.

3. We forced 30 turnovers a game and 17 steals for four straight years (over 100 games). Three point % defense around 23% and overall around 35%.

4. I would be interested in hearing your critique of these "tests" of both concepts. I did assume that sprinting from help is better than sliding or sprinting in and out so I completely agree with PACK over help and recover.
If I was not SWARMing, I would be playing PACK.

5. We were middle of a 14 team league athletically.
FlexOff
Re: Pack Line Defense
November 06, 2008 10:40PM
In a conversation I had with the assistant coach at Xavier, I asked about the down hill close out dilema. His response was that the what's important is stunting and getting there on the catch. Stunting is not helping and recovering, it's bluffing and retreating. He said they stress bluffing the man into picking up his dribble, and being on your way back as he looks to kick. He told me that stunting is the key to being there on the catch. He also said it must be worked on daily, but like baseline rotations, sometimes your going to get beat. However, if worked on and emphasized, the habit will be created. Which will decrease the chances of getting beat.
Wayne Walters
Re: Pack Line Defense
November 07, 2008 04:30AM
IMO if you bluff but never double and rotate then the bluff is ignored. What you described really works but must be preceded
with hard rotations. Like a baseball pitcher using a change up.
CoachLeClaire
Re: Pack Line Defense
December 10, 2008 06:21PM
Hey Flex,

My above post wasnt saying you cant run PackLine with a more athletic team. What I was saying is, it can really help a less athletic team. I am with you, I play this way all the time, no matter how athletic we are. You hit it on the head, it is about position. The more athletic kid can make reads on the ball based on his positioning. Thanks all, great string,

PL
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