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coach m
Getting wings open
November 29, 2009 06:30PM
I have a JV team we our currently 2-0 but we our having problems getting the ball to the wings to enter into our offense. We have the guys either v-cut, get a down screen from the post, or the wings cross but we have avg about 3-5 tournovers a game from a 5 sec count or a stolen pass from the denial of the wings. We have done high ball screens and also considered running some quick hitters to get the entry pass into our offense. I have told the guys to also dribble replace with backdoor cut or a loop cut but havent executed that very well. Just wondering if anyone had any suggestions because I would like to eliminate these 5 TO a game as I can see it increaseing when we start playing our conference teams twice. We run a 3 out 2 in motion with the bigs looking for high low action.
Wayne Walters
Re: Getting wings open
November 30, 2009 12:17AM
Try down screening, curling your post or having them duck inside the screener then step the screener back. On the cross,
have one wing double screen with the post on one side ... if the other wing hollers eight (meaning a curl and return to same side)
the screener steps back. "Triangle" : Wings back door like they are screening while post flash to high post then post step out from the elbow to the wing. Just a few, hope it helps!!

Wayne Walters
Coach Daye
Re: Getting wings open
December 05, 2009 09:51AM
Have them bully the wing defenders. They need to post, seal physically curl over and get these wing defenders on the theirs backs and score. Make them pay phsyically and on the board for denying and it will stop being an issue.
Wayne Walters
Re: Getting wings open
December 05, 2009 04:01PM
Coach Daye,

Please enlighten us with the X's and O's of this "bullying" strategy?
Coach Daye
Re: Getting wings open
December 07, 2009 12:15AM
We do have some techniques that we teach though the important concept is K.O.B. (Keep on body) We feel like the team the successfully initiates the most contact wins the game. Everything we try to do with and without the ball to win one on one battles revolves around being low, attacking with muscle to joint and getting to the defenders back.


If we see arm (anything from shoulder to hands in the passing lane) then we attack the denying elbow. We swing step into contact (shoulder to chest). Swing our inside arm down to "hammer" our forearm into the elbow of denial arm. We then get our chest as parrallel to the floor trying to get the our hammer arm's elbow into the defenders hip and curl hard to get to the defenders back. If they compete physically to push or hold we go into a wing to wing post up.

If we see chest (anything beyond shoulder to whole body denial) we inside are friendly forearm (soft less the 45 degrees) to the sternum of the defense. We then swim our high arm back to go elbow to elbow trying to jam the defenders inside arm to their side. Using their inside arm as a lever we attack the back hip driving our shoulders across the hip and arm to try to get to the defenders back. If they physically compete to fight for space it turns into a wing to wing post up.

Post ups - We are trying to get the defender on our back. Butt below their knee so they can only push us down, not out. Our chest straight to the ball.

Post up techniques:

SLIP - Slide our arm under the elbow or armpit of defender trying to lift. lace our leg so the back of our knee is against the knee cap of the defender. Staighten our leg forcing theirs to straighten and give ground.

HAMMER - Forarm down through denial arm. Punch shoulders through across chest.
Wayne Walters
Re: Getting wings open
December 07, 2009 12:51AM
No offense but I coached football for 20 years plus three as a Defensive coordinator at the JC level and this sounds more like linebackers and defensive tackles. IMO you better be deep because in most leagues your team will be in deep foul trouble.

I coach a physical style in most aspects but this is to the extreme IMO ... if you can get away with it in your league feel free ... do you verbalize "muscle to joint contact" " punch shoulders through across the chest" "hammer the forearm down" "forearm to the sternum" etc. to your players and it is okay with your AD. Sounds more like green beret combat classes. Keep in mind I has alot of football in my back ground and this still seems extreme as you have describe it.

What do other coaches think? Maybe I am off base and if so
other coaches please advise me of that.
Coach Daye
Re: Getting wings open
December 07, 2009 02:06AM
Coach Walters:

Your opinions are always well thought out but in this case I'm not sure we're going to agree.

I do use these terms with varsity high school athletes. With younger kids we'll talk about swimming over and KOB without the more aggressive/specific body movement references. We also explain to our kids that we want our practices to be more physical then games and that in games they will need to make adjustements.

In most cases (unless I've done a poor job of explaining) we aren't committing fouls. As opponents arms can't hold space any contact arm to arm is no man's land. After that the contact on the wing is about the same as you would find in the paint or on the block contacting cutters.

We do get very detailed an specific in the physical movements but as I said the premise of most of what we do is winning one on one battles not group or team tactics (ie. reading screens, running patterns or sets, etc) on offense. So most of our time is spent on individual skills, reads and movements.

We do occasionally run into situations where we are drawing offensive fouls but there tends to be one of two reactions: very quickly the defense who doesn't want to be hit that much at the wing spot backs off and we can go back to non denial reads (catch and shoot, catch and attack the closeout). Or they are willing to compete so either the refs let us play to avoid calling everything or they decide to call everything. At which point I will have a conversation with an official explaining I'll talk to my kids about the the off the ball contact being created, and ask to make sure that it will be called the same way if the defense tries to block cuts or post ups inside the paint (Since that too is off the ball contact) That has mixed results but most officials in my experience allow the players to determine how physical the game will be. So if teams are willing to compete we end up in a lot of great battles, if teams aren't willing to compete and expect the refs to protect them they find it easier to back off in the end.

We do groom depth for those unfortunate situations where the refs or other teams refuse to adapt. In those cases we will probably start more ball screens and dribble drive stuff to avoid needing the wing entry.
John carlos
Re: Getting wings open
December 08, 2009 08:04PM
use dribble entry and just dribble to the wing and have the offensive wing player replace with your PG and you will be in your offense

another idea is to have your point guard dribble-drive hard attacking the basket and this will force the wing players' defender to give help, if the PG can't get to the rim, then jump stop and reverse pivot and kick it back to your wing player and you are in your offense

clear your low post player out and then have your wing player fake high and run a back cut, that will loosen up your wing defenders

just a couple ideas...
Re: Getting wings open
January 03, 2010 06:28PM
Coach, Your team sounds just like mine... I have a Boys JV team with similar problems. I set up four "entries" the PG can call to get things moving when wings aren't getting open.

Through - wings swap sides cutting baseline
Curl - wings curl off posts
Down - pg dribbles off wing
Double - wings come off down screen from posts

Each of these finish in a 3 out 2 in set and go directly into all of our quick hitters and offenses. So for example I could call curl 2 and they would curl off the bigs and go into offense #2.

With all that being said... it still comes down to fundamentals. I teach three types of v-cuts. Straight (Normal v-cut) step across (Outside foot steps across defenders body then explode back to ball) and reverse pivot (inside plant, reverse pivot back into the defenders body then explode to the ball) The whole idea being that you want the defender on your back. I guess it's similar to what Coach Daye was saying but without the fouls. (Sorry coach they would call that in our league)

Good luck!
Corey Gesford
Re: Getting wings open
January 04, 2010 02:36PM

The afforementioned are all good answers, but could your solution be as simple as adjusting your team's v-cuts? Sort of like Coach Daye said, but without the physical contact have your guys attack the top shoulder of the defender (the closest to the ball) and then make v-cut. This might get you some separation from the start.

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