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Larry Dean Jackson
Post Play in Open Post Offense
February 08, 2010 05:23AM
What are some of the ways you can use a good post player in the Open Post Offense?
G20
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
February 09, 2010 03:59AM
If you are running cuts, he can post after any pass. It is tough for an opponent to guard the cut then a post up. Also if they receive a screen, they can curl to the post. If they set a screen, they can simply roll to the post. I feel it is a lot more effective to post from the open post offense instead of fighting for position. Guards seem to be more comfortable throwing that pass, instead of a stationary target.
guest
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
February 12, 2010 03:07PM
Amen brother. Open is a great offense, it is to bad that people in the stands don't understand what you are trying to do out of it to get your post players the basketball. Many of them just see them hanging out on the perimeter when they should be cutting hard and find the block. They can cut and not have to even make a pass to get on the block.
CoachLeClaire
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
February 25, 2010 12:00AM
I love this offense and posting is a big part of it. Like the previous coaches eluded to, everyone teaches post defense and post denial but no one teaches guarding the post on a cut to what we call, a "spin and pin" maneuver.

What we like is this, posts or guards that think they have a size or strength advantage pass and cut to the rim. When they get there, they plant the outside foot and spin back and seal deep in the post. If they are open, we pass them the ball. But here is the key, if the passer doesn't feel the post is open, he will tell him this by simply passing the ball to the next perimeter player. If that happens, the post then back screens for the passer getting us back into open. If we do enter it into the post successfully, we cut by the post (high or low) for a possible hand off.

Hope this helps

Coach LeClaire
Larry Dean Jackson
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
February 26, 2010 01:45PM
Coach LeClaire can you email me? larry@coach-jackson.com
Big Al
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
April 09, 2010 06:46PM
I've never heard of spin and pin, which I like that term. I've heard it called St. Bonnie's Cut, though.
Thom
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
April 20, 2010 03:50PM
Coach,

I would recommend you look at this video, it will give you great opportunities for your post players Bob Huggins: Cut & Fill Motion Offense (bd-3035).

Thom McDonald
Basketball Coaching Director
Championship Productions, Inc.
BasketballCoach.com
thom.mcdonald@championshipproductions.com
1.800.873.2730



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2010 07:13PM by Thom.
CoachLeClaire
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
May 21, 2010 10:07PM
Thom's recommendation is good. The Huggins Cut and Fill video shows some good post action. He also some good post up stuff on his original Open Post Motion Video called (creatively I might add) Open Post Motion. Frankly, if you can get it, Huggins book on Open is the best. It has a lot of Pinch post action as well as post up stuff. It goes into far more detail than the videos.

By the way, Hug seems to be the only guy that teaches the post up options out of this offense and I love it as an option. Honestly, my club is completely committed to this offense as the best way to teach kids to play. With that in mind, I not only have both Huggins videos. I also have both of Andy Woods videos on this offense, Jerry Petitgoes video, Lason Perkins video (outstanding by the way), both Rick Samuels videos on drills for Open Post Motion and Harry Perretta's No Mistake 5 Out Motion. Frankly, all good videos.

All the talk on this board about Dribble Drive and Read & React, someone has to wave the Open Post Flag. Come over to the light coaches and check out open post motion.
anonsccoach
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
July 02, 2010 12:04AM
After running this offense for years, I have found some ways to effectively use the post players that I have not seen mentioned much in other sources. Huggins does have alot of ideas in his book. I recommend, you check it out. He has alot of stuff on pinching the post and using the post-curl action.

Personally, at the high school level, I find that some of that is a little complicated to teach. I think that is why you see little of it in the Wood and Perkins videos. Get the Petitgoue DVD. It has alot of quick hit looks, and a couple of them are designed for post players.

One thing that I find works really well is to teach your players to attack any defender that plays soft on the perimeter to run right at them, plant, and reverse pivot into a post up position. This is very effective to teach all of your players to do because they will learn to be more effective against sagging defenders in general. I have also found it effective to start in an A formation with the post players high. From here, you can initiate the offense with a screen and roll action.

Another thing I do sometimes is start off the offense in a 3out/2in look and use a cross screen action on the blocks off of the entry pass. After the initial look, you rotate out of the look and begin your open post motion.

After running the offense for awhile, I can tell you that the open post is very versatile in that you can run several different sets and quick hits to initiate action and then have your players move into the open-post motion.

I LOVE THIS OFFENSE! Play around with it. It really is limitless once your players become adapted to the basic rules of the offense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2010 12:06AM by anonsccoach.
Montytitan
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
July 02, 2010 01:22AM
anonsccoach...any chance you might have some diagrams for some good post action and even some good two man pick and roll action that works well in open post
anonsccoach
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
July 02, 2010 03:02AM
I don't have any diagrams on my computer. Sorry, but I am not too technological. One of the things that we do, and the players love it so much that I sometimes have to restrict it, is that anytime the ball is passed in the corner, we run a screen and roll out of it. The dribbler (from the corner) must break through the 3 point arc, and the screener will roll down the baseline. It is very effective.

As I mentioned above, another big look for us is to take both post players and start them up high in an A formation. The point guard can then use either of them as a screen, initiating a screen and roll. The other players then rotate in the 5 out spots. This is something that I picked up from watching European basketball, where they use the A-formation quite a bit.

Sorry again for not having anything on diagrams for you.
Shocks
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
July 02, 2010 04:28PM
I run open post and I've found that the screen and roll in the corner is not effective versus superior and more athletic teams. They will switch and or trap this everytime and make it difficult for spacing because of the baseline and sideline. I found this out the hard way and I've changed our corner option. We now run what we call a spread corner. After passing to the corner we try to cut right in front of our defender looking for the ball...this is a diversionary tactic because we never throw to this player. What we do is immediately drive the ball off the cut to the middle of the floor. We have opened up what Wahlberg calls a double gap. The cutter then relocates back to the corner where the dribbler started and we look for one of the following options: option 1 is a pentrating layup, option 2 is a pitch out 3 point shot to one of our 3 players on weak side, option 3 (my favorite) is a jump stop reverse pivot kickback to the corner for a wide open 3pt shot. The last option is almost always open because the cutters man usually helps out on the dribble penetration and cannot recover back to the corner. They cannot switch this action because it happens so fast that teams have to respect the basket cut and most teams will jump to the ball and try to deny the cut to the basket, thus eliminating the help on the dribble drive. Probably nothing new to most of you but this has been remarkable for us the last three seasons. Take care and God bless.
anonsccoach
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
July 04, 2010 05:50PM
I have seen that done as well.

I have not encoutered those problems with the screen and roll that you are talking about. When teams switch screens or try to trap the ball, the roll is open. We actually like it when teams do that.
shock
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
July 05, 2010 02:43AM
I agree that the roll will be open against mediocre teams as well as poorly coached teams. What we found is that against well coached teams, it was easy to trap and rotate the hoop man in help defense to cover the roll defender as well as the trap to cause deflections and turnovers. I coach girls and passing is the biggest weakness in the girls game and anytime you make passing more difficult, it is to your advantage.
anonsccoach
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
July 05, 2010 09:52PM
I coach girls myself. I have coached this against many well-coached and athletic teams. Do you have a safety option (kick out pass) available if the screen and roll break down? If there is a rotation over to cover the trap, you should be able to easily drive and kick to the opposite side.

We spend a lot of time working on the drive from the screen, with the defense doing different things (switching, doubling, hedge/recover). We spend 5-10 minutes daily on this look. It is very hard to prepare to trap or stunt the defense when your players are running everything properly (back-cutting and driving anytime they can). You need to make sure that your corner player is not in the corner, but in front of the 3 pt line. This gives more room to dribble around a trap.

I am not saying that it can't happen, but I coach against some of the toughest teams in my state, and most know that our motion look has that option. I am not saying that we score everytime we use it, but I have yet to see a team stop us from doing it. If you are playing teams that are that superior, then I would be willing to bet that just about any offense that you run is going to give you some problem.
CoachLeClaire
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
August 17, 2010 11:24PM
Another thing you can do on that corner pass is simply have the passer take a hard step towards the ball (like they are going to ball screen) and then back cut. When the ball goes to the corner, most kids move to trap or double anyway. If you sell it with a hard step, the back cut comes wide open.
anonsccoach
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
September 10, 2010 05:47PM
I just ended up re-reading this thread. Let me emphasize one point about the corner screen and roll that I failed to mention. We do this when the rotation has moved us so that a post-player is positioned at foul-line-extended, and the perimeter-player is in the corner. This makes our dribble out easier, and provides bit of bigger target with a post player rolling to the basket down the baseline.

Again, as I said. I have run this offense for years, and everyone of my opponents knows what we do. We rarely run into opponents that can stop it. One of the reasons for this is that we drill this almost daily, and my players are really well-versed in reading the defense in this situation.
tarheels
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
October 11, 2010 05:21AM
Do you find this offense is hard to run against teams that really sag off their man?
CoachLeClaire
Re: Post Play in Open Post Offense
October 11, 2010 04:35PM
We find, against teams that get up and deny, what we call "Basketcuts" are open. We just pass and cut, quick give and goes and they come open. When running basketcuts, if you play a team that is well coached to "jump to the ball" on D, tell your guys to take one hard step towards the ball and backcut. The hard step makes it look like a pick and roll and the Defender may take an extra step to the ball leaving the backcut wide open. If they dont jump to the ball, face cut them. I used to tell my guys, when overplayed, backcut. That was too nebulous for them. Now I say, if the D sets one foot outside the 3 pt arc, go backdoor.

With regard to sagging defenses, what we call "CurlCuts" works well. Pass and screen away. But you have to preach 3 things.

1) Good screening angles. The screener should have his butt to the basket or butt to the ball. If he just goes straight to the D and screens, the D will step under and meet the cutter coming out the other side.

2) Head hunt. Screeners have to go find a jersey and put a body on them. I tell my guys, "be the Hitter, not the Hittee".

And finally, 3) Walk into screens. If the D is doing a good job of getting off their man when 2 passes away, screens will only work if the cutter and the screener meet at the defender. We tell them to walk into screens. I have found visual and verbal communication really helps here. If the screener says the player he is screening for's name and puts a fist up, that usually wakes them up and gets them to walk in.

When we run curlcuts, we just screen away and use the rule, if you receive a screen, you are going to the rim, curling or backcutting the screen. If you set the screen, you are flashing back to the ball for a little 12' to 15' jumper. By the way, if they take the cutter away, the guy flashing back is always open.

Last thing, if they start switching the screens, we run "SlipCuts". In SlipCuts, the guy receiving the screen goes high for the jumper and the screener spins and pins his man and slips to the rim. Done correctly, the slip guy should have his man stuck on the wrong side and should be open.

One more last thing, I used to give things clever names like "UCLA" or "Princeton". I found half the time, my own team didnt know what we were doing so now, i just call stuff what it is. Done correctly, teams still cant guard it.

Anyway, good luck coach,

Coach LeClaire
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